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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1992ss 4 bolt main 496ci build (Read 22465 times)
Derek B
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bumpy cruise torque converter lockup
Reply #105 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 3:09pm
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BBC with 250 duration cam w/108 lobe separation
4l80e w/ PTC 3000 stall converter all controlled be EZ TCU controller.

My problem:    during low rpm cruise (1700-2000rpm) and TC lockup,   the truck bumps along with the rpm of the engine,  at least this is my perception.  I don’t believe this is any kind of slippage,   I do think that when the converter is locked up that the converter and transmission is picking up the rough idle and transmitting it as a bumping or perceived shudder.   The truck only does this during TC lock up at low rpm cruise.   After listening to the exhaust notes, the torque converter does bump along with the exhaust notes.  This is what leads me to this hypothesis.

I called PTC,  they said there may be a way to tune the engine around this.   also, since with the EZ TCU I can set converter lockup parameters, the PTC tech guy said, set the TC lockup at speed signal higher to come in at a higher rpm until another resolution can be found.  he said there was no danger to the TC by doing this.

called Chris Straub,   he was not able to provide any guidance and referred me to a gentleman in Chattanooga via email.  I'm waiting to hear back on that.

I'm calling EZ TCU tech line again today and I was told to call back later and talk to Ricky (evidently he is the hard case tech guy)
  

Hot street 496 build 10.5:1 solid roller with AFR 265 Ovals Gen V block.
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dubwise
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Re: 1992ss 4 bolt main 496ci build
Reply #106 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 6:53pm
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You are on the right track. Sorta.  Grin

I'm surprised PTC didn't tell you about some guy in Orlando that had a similar issue like the one you are describing.  Cheesy ...as I called them awhile back when I had the same issue - asking the exact same questions.

It sounds like you are sort of following in my footsteps trying to resolve the issue. The answers/advice to resolve the issue fully is on the last page of this thread. Up to you if you want to take it or not.

Bump the lockup up to 55-60mph and see if things improve. If not, reread some of the guidance I posted earlier to get things sorted. If it doesn't make sense, ask for some elaboration and I'll try to assist.

You want to find the RPM where the cam profile "smooths out" and set the lockup for that speed. But with that large of a cam it may be higher than you want. If you haven't locked out the HEI yet, or at min put in the heaviest springs you have you are not doing yourself and favors. Irrespective if you are feeding the RPM signal to the trans controller, if you have lighter springs in there bouncing around - once lockup comes on you'll feel that in the drivetrain. You won't feel it with the TCC off as its essentially a fluid cushion between the engine and the trans.
  

1992 454ss: 540ci / 4L80E (Vortech YSI-B S/C)
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Derek B
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Re: 1992ss 4 bolt main 496ci build
Reply #107 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm
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dubwise wrote on Aug 6th, 2019 at 6:53pm:
You are on the right track. Sorta.  Grin

I'm surprised PTC didn't tell you about some guy in Orlando that had a similar issue like the one you are describing.  Cheesy ...as I called them awhile back when I had the same issue - asking the exact same questions.

It sounds like you are sort of following in my footsteps trying to resolve the issue. The answers/advice to resolve the issue fully is on the last page of this thread. Up to you if you want to take it or not.

Bump the lockup up to 55-60mph and see if things improve. If not, reread some of the guidance I posted earlier to get things sorted. If it doesn't make sense, ask for some elaboration and I'll try to assist.

You want to find the RPM where the cam profile "smooths out" and set the lockup for that speed. But with that large of a cam it may be higher than you want. If you haven't locked out the HEI yet, or at min put in the heaviest springs you have you are not doing yourself and favors. Irrespective if you are feeding the RPM signal to the trans controller, if you have lighter springs in there bouncing around - once lockup comes on you'll feel that in the drivetrain. You won't feel it with the TCC off as its essentially a fluid cushion between the engine and the trans.


Yes I will be doing the lockout as a natural progression.    I really wanted to use the new trans controller anyway because of its ability to simplify the process and provide settings easily and quickly.   I also get to get rid of a MAP and CTS senosors along with all the extra wiring.   And I don’t have to worry about flashing the ECM.  I know it’s not the cheap way.  But I couldn’t help it  Grin Grin
The rpm required to get up to a smooth rpm will put me at about 75 mph.  And that’s where I have eztcu set now.   I think I will get an all electronic distributor and cdi box  next.   That should fix it.  And if it doesn’t....    we will see.     The question a have is will an all electronic timing setup smooth out the idle.??   Thanks again.  I am following your advice     We will get there thanks again.

Thanks again.
  

Hot street 496 build 10.5:1 solid roller with AFR 265 Ovals Gen V block.
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Derek B
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what distributor
Reply #108 - Aug 7th, 2019 at 12:46am
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dubwise wrote on Aug 6th, 2019 at 6:53pm:
You are on the right track. Sorta.  Grin

I'm surprised PTC didn't tell you about some guy in Orlando that had a similar issue like the one you are describing.  Cheesy ...as I called them awhile back when I had the same issue - asking the exact same questions.

It sounds like you are sort of following in my footsteps trying to resolve the issue. The answers/advice to resolve the issue fully is on the last page of this thread. Up to you if you want to take it or not.

Bump the lockup up to 55-60mph and see if things improve. If not, reread some of the guidance I posted earlier to get things sorted. If it doesn't make sense, ask for some elaboration and I'll try to assist.

You want to find the RPM where the cam profile "smooths out" and set the lockup for that speed. But with that large of a cam it may be higher than you want. If you haven't locked out the HEI yet, or at min put in the heaviest springs you have you are not doing yourself and favors. Irrespective if you are feeding the RPM signal to the trans controller, if you have lighter springs in there bouncing around - once lockup comes on you'll feel that in the drivetrain. You won't feel it with the TCC off as its essentially a fluid cushion between the engine and the trans.


dub-If I wanted to cut to the chase here what ignition system would fix this ? You mentioned the Hall effect distributor by MSD  and what ignition box? The only reason I have what I have is all I want is something that works.  If it cost 100 or 500 I don’t care. I don’t mind spending the money if thats what I need.
  

Hot street 496 build 10.5:1 solid roller with AFR 265 Ovals Gen V block.
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dubwise
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Re: 1992ss 4 bolt main 496ci build
Reply #109 - Aug 7th, 2019 at 2:40am
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Unfortunately for this one I can't realistically give you a recommendation for a hall effect distro and CDI that would work with the fitech. I would probably call them to see if they can give you a recommendation.

What I can tell you though is ideally you would want the fitech to control the timing while also having the benefits of a CDI box along w/the hall effect. This would also allow you to leverage the full advantages of EFI. Doing this should also allow you have the ability to program the timing curve (with the fitech) and get an aggregated log file complete with timing info in it along with all the other default fitech EFI data. Can you do this w/o having the fitech controlling timing? Yes, but wait for later on in this post and I'll tell you why its probably less than ideal.

Once you are at that stage where you can log everything, you should be able to easily fine tune the TCC lockup or at min, identify exactly what RPM and timing the issue happens so you can make adjustments accordingly.

Another option to take into consideration is you are sort of at a cross roads, much like I was awhile back. Before you invest the money in a new CDI box and hall effect distro make sure fitech has support for it. Last thing you want to do is be way out in left field running a setup that say only a handful of people are running, that doesn't have a ton of support from the manufacturer.

That is what ultimately what led me to the holley sniper as their hall effect distro, CDI and coil are competitively priced and the support is there for the setup if need be (and its all made by the same manufacturer so they couldn't play the blame game). One last thing is don't do what I did, as at one point in time I had a programmable MSD CDI box (to set ignition curve), the programmable Fitech (for the EFI / fuel) along with the (programmable) factory PCM (for the 4L80e). That was on the brink of insanity trying to get 3 different boxes to work with one another, along with having to tweak 3 different boxes when I wanted to make a change to something. ( dont get me wrong this setup will work, but it was a lot to take in).

Realistically I can only tell you what I ended up with. That doesn't mean though that there could be alternatives that would work just as well though.

TLDR- Call fitech to see if you get a "Warm and fuzzy" when you ask if they support a CDI and hall effect setup.

Hope this helps.
  

1992 454ss: 540ci / 4L80E (Vortech YSI-B S/C)
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Derek B
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Re: 1992ss 4 bolt main 496ci build
Reply #110 - Aug 7th, 2019 at 2:49am
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dubwise wrote on Aug 7th, 2019 at 2:40am:
Unfortunately for this one I can't realistically give you a recommendation for a hall effect distro and CDI that would work with the fitech. I would probably call them to see if they can give you a recommendation.

What I can tell you though is ideally you would want the fitech to control the timing while also having the benefits of a CDI box along w/the hall effect. This would also allow you to leverage the full advantages of EFI. Doing this should also allow you have the ability to program the timing curve (with the fitech) and get an aggregated log file complete with timing info in it along with all the other default fitech EFI data. Can you do this w/o having the fitech controlling timing? Yes, but wait for later on in this post and I'll tell you why its probably less than ideal.

Once you are at that stage where you can log everything, you should be able to easily fine tune the TCC lockup or at min, identify exactly what RPM and timing the issue happens so you can make adjustments accordingly.

Another option to take into consideration is you are sort of at a cross roads, much like I was awhile back. Before you invest the money in a new CDI box and hall effect distro make sure fitech has support for it. Last thing you want to do is be way out in left field running a setup that say only a handful of people are running, that doesn't have a ton of support from the manufacturer.

That is what ultimately what led me to the holley sniper as their hall effect distro, CDI and coil are competitively priced and the support is there for the setup if need be (and its all made by the same manufacturer so they couldn't play the blame game). One last thing is don't do what I did, as at one point in time I had a programmable MSD CDI box (to set ignition curve), the programmable Fitech (for the EFI / fuel) along with the (programmable) factory PCM (for the 4L80e). That was on the brink of insanity trying to get 3 different boxes to work with one another, along with having to tweak 3 different boxes when I wanted to make a change to something. ( dont get me wrong this setup will work, but it was a lot to take in).

Realistically I can only tell you what I ended up with. That doesn't mean though that there could be alternatives that would work just as well though.

TLDR- Call fitech to see if you get a "Warm and fuzzy" when you ask if they support a CDI and hall effect setup.

Hope this helps.


Unfortunately my meanstreet doesn’t support timing control.       And wow thank you for your response I appreciate your time it took.   
  

Hot street 496 build 10.5:1 solid roller with AFR 265 Ovals Gen V block.
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